Professor Charles Ngwena, director of the Masters programme on Reproductive and Sexual Rights at the University of the Free State, South Africa, chatted to the ARSRC Director, Dr Richmond Tiemoko about the programme and his views on the precedence of African pleasure and fantasy in Africa.

Sexual pleasure and fantasy in Africa

I think part of the problem is that in Africa this matter has not been discussed publicly, and as a result we find it very difficult to find genealogical or newspaper items that have publicly discussed the matter of sexual pleasure , so it tends to be something   regarded as unwritten, unsaid,   and yet   an important part of human identity . So I would say yes, the topic is very important to all of us as Africans because we are part of humanity and all of us regard sexual pleasure as an important and essential aspect of our being human and our identity.

  Yet it is not a topic that we have publicly discussed. It is only now that we think it is important to discuss it, because if it is not discussed we'll end up for example in the situation we are in with HIV/AIDS. So you do need to make it a public matter. Also since sexual diversity exists and is not acknowledged. It means in a sense, we are contributing to the oppression of our sexual minority. So my response will be no, it is not a topic that is been discussed traditionally or historically in Africa except through the media.

Does the fact that there has really been no public discussion on it mean that there was no issue of sexual pleasure or sexual fantasy in Africa in the past?

No, it has always been there, I just think that Africa is not an exceptional case with regards to other societies. There has always been sexual pleasure and fantasies even though we may not have documented the experiences. We've not had researchers in Africa actually going into the field     (Africa) to research on sexual experiences, pleasure and fantasies but I think we may have had anthropologists from other parts of the world coming. I personally don't know yet about it, and I am very keen to know about it, because it makes my teaching very difficult when we teach about sexual orientations. I am able to site taboos that have been documented along with sexual experiences of a different kind.

Since there is no real evidence of documentation, do you believe that in Africa poetry helps in any way?

You can say so because basically in Africa, the little that has been passed on was done verbally to some extent whereas our counterparts in other parts of the world have been able to share it on films, in theatres and etcetera.

  Books written by Africans actually restrain themselves, when it comes to discussing sex and sexual fantasy. Films have also done the same, although we are now beginning to see a bit of it on television. Otherwise you would still have narratives that are very private and within closed places. I'm not trying to say it hasn't always been there, it's just that it's always been within a very private sphere.

  From personal experience it could have been something shared between my peers and me, so there was no institutional structure at home or in church or wherever, where that could be shared. It was just between my school mates and I and then friends too. I think that was a very limited environment for sharing. You probably would want it to go beyond that but I don't think it did.   The teacher for example wouldn't communicate anything to allow you to think it is a subject that you can entertain and listen to. So it was very much of a private conversation between me and my peers.   It was only after living home and experiencing other countries I discovered that it is something that is supposed to be shared in public

Socialization and Sexual Fantasy

I think like any young person you are curious about your first sexual experience and this I believe happened to all of us and these are the sort of things we would share with our peers. Like if somebody had a sexual experience he would want to share it with his closest friends because we were just curious about sex and what the experience was like. I'm not sure about fantasies. I suppose by fantasies one might imagine they might want more than one partner, I can't remember any of us either experiencing or longing for this sort of fetish. It was actually after reading and knowing about other peoples experiences that I discovered that, that could be a pleasure if one was inclined towards that.   In my opinion, based on my experience I would still say that the African experience tends to be a private one between very close friends and it's barely even shared with my brother.

Link Between sexual pleasure and individual well being?

Well, as the sexual beings that we are, we become socialized at an early age into roles, there is an expectation that one day you meet your partner it would not just be simply a platonic relationship but a relationship that among other things involve sexual communion between you and the other party.   I was cultured into a prosexual culture and I accepted that as the norm. It was only much later in life that I discovered it could be different.   Sex is not just to make children but it is also an important part of how we recreate.

Bringing sexual fantasy into public discourse in Africa

I think when it was private, it wasn't problematic. To the best of my knowledge I never saw the need but now that I know about sexual diversity and the oppression of the sexual minority, I think it is important to bring it out in the public in other to have recognition of these other forms of sexuality. HIV/AIDS is another important reason why we must talk about it because only then would there be some sort control of unwanted or adolescent pregnancy.   As a matter of fact, there are many reasons why we should promote a public discus on sexuality and sexual pleasure because we are bound to suffer from lack of knowledge and by remaining silent and calling it a private matter.   The same could be said about commercial sex work, that it is some thing that we ought to discus publicly, and provide an environment where commercial sex work could be discussed without the provider of the service becoming victims or at least minimizing the cost on the people who provide this service.

Could you please tell us briefly about your masters programme?

The masters in law programme on reproductive and sexual right was launched in 2005 with the support of the ford foundation. We train graduates from different African countries who already have law degrees. They come here to do their masters in law programme, with a special focus on reproductive and sexual right. The programme is in its 3rd year here and it is actually the first programme on the Africa continent to opt for an academic curriculum, which focuses on reproductive and sexual health and rights.